Post Your Thoughts on 5th...

Subject: Re: Post Your Thoughts on 5th... Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:59 pm

haha, funny how my wording stayed "4th Ed".

But yea that is what i meant. He didnt knock any units out, he unintentionally (perhaps thinking like he did back in 4th) that he was somewhat ok knocking them below half, then moving on to other units. Perhaps he figured he would get back to them later.

The slightly random game length will shake things up a lot too!
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Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 22 (The Dark Angels wiped some silly pod marines)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)

http://mcelv.blogspot.com/

Subject: Re: Post Your Thoughts on 5th... Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:10 pm

I have read a few 5th Battle Reports now, and in most, the players forgot that you score to the last troop model.

You think the wound/save allocation thing is going to give my Crisis teams fits?

Subject: Re: Post Your Thoughts on 5th... Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:23 pm

I think any small team with different load outs will be effected.

It's going to be harder to keep certain models alive than in 4th, but it's not the end of the world. Redundancy just becomes more important than it was in 4th.
_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 22 (The Dark Angels wiped some silly pod marines)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)

http://mcelv.blogspot.com/

Neophyte Joined : 06 Jun 2008 Posts : 45

I just finished reading my copy last night and all I can say is what a Major Disappointment! Rolling Eyes

Subject: Re: Post Your Thoughts on 5th... Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:42 pm

why is that 'monger?
_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 22 (The Dark Angels wiped some silly pod marines)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)

http://mcelv.blogspot.com/

Subject: Re: Post Your Thoughts on 5th... Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:46 pm

Ahhh . Matt beat me to it.

Yes yes.... Any declaration of "disappointment" (or support for that matter) needs to be supported with Why. This increases the quality of the content on the boards..
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Currently playing:Infinity - Combined Army
Currently Learning: WH40K
Currently Painting:
WHFB OG - On Deck 2 Trolls, 1 Orc Bully and 1 crew

Subject: Re: Post Your Thoughts on 5th... Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:25 pm

yeah, agree with Matt and John. I think 5th ed is awesome. Really, I like everything they did....
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Warhammer Fantasy Overlord

Neophyte Joined : 06 Jun 2008 Posts : 45

Ok, so you want some insight into what is going on in my head affraid

well just remember you asked for it Smile

. Let me first clarify that I don't hate the 5 edition and I'm not going to stop playing it's just that I didn't get that "Ah thats to cool feeling" like I did with apocolypse so I was disappointed, but for those of you who want alittle more here it goes.
Let me mention a couple of the things I liked first: personally I think the book is the best written, concise and organized(page ref. #'s, ect.) that they have produced, thats coming from 20 years of playing games- workshop games. The next several examples good and bad bear in mind that these opinions are based on the fact that games-workshop has always talked about trying to keep things as realistic as possible in terms of rules and mechanics without effecting the flow of the game. Something I have really liked about thier game systems. With that in mind; example 1, The tank ramming rule is great(how practical or frequent it will be used is un-determind) but it is realistic and adds something to the game, example 2, The run rule...probably the best rule in along time,realistic and adds something much more to the game.
Now for the real answers you have been waiting for. First off the new LOS rule is ok not that different then it is now until you combine it with the new terrain and wound allocation rules. Being able to see thru large sections of woods & jungle, ect as along as you can draw a LOS thru the individual trees is silly, think about it, how far can you really see in a woods, not that far. To make a woods or such realistic now would require so much stuff (trees,flocking,ect.) it would hinder movement ( there is enough problems moving models thru custom scenery as it is ),and with wound allocation think about this: My unit of marines are shooting at your unit behind a wall because they can see one of your models head. They shoot with their sniper-bolters killing him and a couple of his comrades that can't be seen from the ricocheting or penetrating bullets,maybe? but does it really add realism to the game, might have stuck with wound what you can see also.
Cover saves, whats up with cover saves. There is a cover save for everything, it's like over compensation for all the increased shooting that is possible. I swear I saw something in the book that gives you a cover save if your opponent looks at you cross eyed Rolling Eyes

. Last one, consolidation, You finally weather the storm of fire to get to assualt and wipe out your opponent only to mill around and be shot at again instead of assualting the enemy standing beside you "Oh come on" that rule takes away an aspect of the game.
So there you have it, some of things that disappointed me, some of the things I liked. I'm not going to rant and rave about it thats just not my style, it is what it is after all it is just a game.
As with all things sometimes things aren't as bad as they seem, we'll see after some games. If you feel the need to bash me for my opinion leave it at the door, right or wrong it just my first impression after reading the rules. Smile

Subject: Re: Post Your Thoughts on 5th... Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:59 pm

As a slight counter-argument (I'm a fan of discussion on the boards Wink

)

I don't think it's too big of a deal that more than can be seen under TLOS can die. Just think of any movie when a group of soldiers move around a corner only to be shot at, many will normally die before they get back. I imagine units not standing exactly where they are model wise, but moving around constantly. So the few extra being killed may have been shot through the wall or as they moved around the corner. I think you can argue the realism either way.

I would also argue that consolidation into other units didn't happen that much amongst good players anyway, so getting rid of it isn't the end of the world.

I think you bring up a good point with the sheer number of cover saves on offer now, it will take a while getting used to (after playing a few games).

Anyone else with an opinion on these things?
_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 22 (The Dark Angels wiped some silly pod marines)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)

http://mcelv.blogspot.com/

Subject: Re: Post Your Thoughts on 5th... Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:50 pm

I have to agree with Eric/Warmonger on the consolidation into other units and what do you mean the "good" players don't use that much, Matt? I consider myself a pretty good player (maybe not the "Warmaster" level that some players think they are) and I used it quite a bit with alot of effectiveness. Or what about Eldar players using Harlies and Bugs using 'stealers to run gunlines with consolidation. A "good" player utilized these tactics to win games with HTH. GW was supposed to concentrate on assaults in this edition and not being able to consolidate into a unit a few inches away from you is BS and takes away from HTH.
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If the Emperor is the light of Mankind, then I am the eternal darkness he is now lost in.

Chaos marine
5th edition record- win 6, lost 1, draw 3

Subject: Re: Post Your Thoughts on 5th... Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:00 am

Oh by the way, I do like a majority of 5th, but some rules didn't need fixed. Like all the friggin'cover saves, If I fart while playing a game with someone, do my figures get a cover save? Laughing

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If the Emperor is the light of Mankind, then I am the eternal darkness he is now lost in.

Chaos marine
5th edition record- win 6, lost 1, draw 3

Subject: Re: Post Your Thoughts on 5th... Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:53 am

Not that good players didnt use it, but rather it didnt come up too often against a smart opponent. It wasn't too hard for a savvy opponent to avoid the situation ever coming up if they didn't want it to. That coupled with the randomness of it meant it was a pretty rare thing.

Granted, it was pretty major when it did happen, i just dont see it as a major change. It is also one that gunline armies like guard and non-mechanized tau will really make use of... and lets face it, they need all the help they can get.

I think a good player used assaults carefully, and didn't rely on a d6 roll to be lucky enough to hit another unit. Plus how many good players do you know that would leave their units picket lined so that stealers or harlies can just run through them all only requiring low dice rolls to roll into the next unit.

Just my 2cents though
_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 22 (The Dark Angels wiped some silly pod marines)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)

http://mcelv.blogspot.com/

Subject: Re: Post Your Thoughts on 5th... Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:05 am

[quote="Matt"] It is also one that gunline armies like guard and non-mechanized tau will really make use of... and lets face it, they need all the help they can get."

How true! Very Happy

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If the Emperor is the light of Mankind, then I am the eternal darkness he is now lost in.

Chaos marine
5th edition record- win 6, lost 1, draw 3

Neophyte Joined : 06 Jun 2008 Posts : 45

Ok Dume, just relax it's only a discussion of opinions and we all know that opinions are like a__holes, everyone has one and they all stink Laughing

besides it all could just be the difference between good players assaulting and good assaulting players Wink

It's all in fun don't take it personally, and like Matt said savy players should recognize the threat but even then a good assualting player will use bottlenecks or box you into a corner so the tactic will work. Timing and patience is key. I could be wrong but didn't that happen to you Matt at the mini RTT in Kettering on the last game. Razz