Two potential bretonnian lists competitive 2250

Well I used to play bretonnians back when they came with lizardmen in the OLD box set and since mike is starting an empire army I figured I start a fantasy army too (the idiocy of killpoints has turned me off to guard and 40k in general for the time being). So anyway I have two potential lists one is grail knights based and the other is peg knights, you tell me what you think.

First the Grail Knights list;

Fay Enchantress - 545

Paladin BSB - Warhorse, Lance of Artois, Virtue of the Joust, Grail Vow - 145

7 Grail Guardians - Full Command - 296

9 Grail Knights - Full Command, Twilight Banner - 397

3 Pegasus Knights - Full Command - 195

9 KotR - Full Command - 240

3x 5 KotR - Full Command - 144 (x3 = 432)

2250 Total

Now the Pegasus Knight list;

Bretonnian Lord - Royal Pegasus, Enchanted Shield, Gauntlet of the Duel, Virtue of Confidence, Lance of Artois, Grail Vow - 258

Paladin BSB - Lance, Warhorse, Virtue of Knightly Temper - 118

Damsel - 2x Dispel Scrolls, Barded Warhorse - 134

3x 3 Pegasus Knights - Full Command - 195 (585)

7 KotR - Full Command - 192

9 KotR - Full Command - 240

5x KotR- Full Command - 144 (720)

2247 total

So there you go. Sorry I havent been responding to my other posts, my laptop has been internet incapable for a few weeks and I finally got it back on track. Tell me what you think!

Smile

Initiate Joined : 10 Dec 2007 Posts : 298

One thing to consider is that the Brets greatest strength is their lance formation. They are the only army in the game that have 3 wide with ranks that count. Running smaller units of knights does not take advantage of that.

I was wondering if that would be an issue. My problem with a large lance formation is that it leaves an awfully long exposed flank. Also MSU logic is that small units of knights will almost always be flanking and the true strength of knights comes from their combat ability which will usually overshadow a large unwieldy lance formation. Ideally it would seem to me that three small 5 man knight units in lance formation would usually beat a single large unit of 15 lances. First the lance formation is losing 4 attacks from the knights riding the middle, their long exposed flank means against other cavalry they will almost certainly not get the lance bonus, and it's size will eat up movement when it wheels thus decreasing it's mobility. Thats the logic at least.

Initiate Joined : 10 Dec 2007 Posts : 298

re-read the rules on lance formation. A unit of 9 gets 8 str 5 lance attacks and 7 str 3 horse attacks on the charge as well as 2 ranks for combat resolution. A unit of 5 gets 6 str 5 lance attacks and 5 str 3 horse attacks on the charge and no ranks for combat resolution. If all your units are built for side charges, who is going to charge the front? Knights always want to be charging instead of being charged.

P.S. I would never reccomend a unit of 15, I usually run with units of 9 or 12.

Neophyte Joined : 02 Mar 2008 Posts : 36

I'd rather eat my gentleman vegitables than play a list with 3X3 Peg Knights. Thats some limburger. If it were a tournement with comp I'd give the first list a 3 and the second list a 2 or a 1.

Neophyte Joined : 02 Mar 2008 Posts : 36

PS where are your men at arms. They're one of the best units in the game for static res? I don't leave home without at least 2 units of 20

Alright well I have been hearing that the pegasi is pretty broken, I just wanted to take advantage of the anniversy box set GW is selling (10 Peg Knights and a Peg Lord 110.00 not bad at all) which I most likely still will but for now I'll leave them alone. You'd rate them a one eh? They must be really something, I thought they were pretty expensive for what they do but I haven't personally played with them yet. So sticking to the first list what units would you expand to 12, I was thinking maybe the grail knights since they are already the back bone but they are really pricey. And as far as the peasants go sooner or later I want to drop in a grail relaquerry (sp?) with 30 men and two blocks of MaA halberds next to them. What about archers, some people love them, some seem indifferent I think myself the latter but I can see how cost effective they are but are a lot of range 30 str 3 shots actually able to do anything to main line units? Then there are the trebuchets, I can only take one with this list, but are they worth it or do they become more of a chore to protect compared to the damage they do? Finally what about my small knights units on other forums everyone was saying how great MSU is but do you guys think I would be better off merging some of the small units?

Neophyte Joined : 02 Mar 2008 Posts : 36

Peg knights are awesome........ as a matter of fact too awesome..... (Flying skirmishers that have awesome mounts and can charge 360!!) but here is the problem i have with the Grail Reliquary. I can get almost two units of men at arms for the price of one reliquary. You get hatred and stuborn.....eh...... and the same basic stat line..... and now there is so much that causes fear you want your stuborn unit to be immune to psyche or it will auto break if it lose a combat with an outnumbering fear causer (VC, TK, DOC).
i use my archers to bring down big baddies many a deamon prince, giant, and sometimes a dragon has fallen to brettonian archers. But they're not there to take out a main line enemy unit. They're there to intmidate. The game is won in the movement phase and archers can help you direct an enemy unit to where you want it. Plus who gives a crap if you lose them they're just peasents.
Now mount yeomen are awesome. And comp friendly too. But they're solid. Spear, light armor, bow and shield. I give them a banner for and musso for combat res. Because their peasents if they lose their banner it doens't give any points to your opponent. What you might try doing is replacing the 3x3 units of pegknights with a unit of 4 with command and running 2 units of mounted yeoman.

Also check out the www.podhammer.net grailcast episode. And everyone should listen to this podcast if not just for entertainment value.
This is the anthem throw your damn hands up